Curse

Tickle · Dec 03, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

If all you really want is Razah then the easy solution is to get him through faction.

I pretty much don't care about DoA and getting into "certain" groups, theres so much more to do and better places to farm in Nightfall and DoA isn't the be all and end all of Nightfall.
To those that want DoA made easier, perhaps you would also like halls made easier.. I suggest everyone runs frensig for these ppl, after all everyone has to have their moment in the sun.

garethporlest18 · Dec 03, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Primarily the way to counter most of the margonite clans here is a tank, whether it be assassin, warrior, dervish or whatever else. Vow of Silence, Obsidian Flesh, Shadow Form or Spell Breaker is a key skill. Interruption once those wear off is also key. Each team should have 1 sort of tank, 1 ranger, 2 monks one being prot and one being heal. 2 damage dealers, with AoE damage can be ele's or mesmer. Should have at least 1 of each of those though. Then a paragon or rit for support. People don't have to follow this and they don't need it to win. The co-op in the team and listening and patience can also win it for them.

Once more people get the rest of their characters there, this place will become a lot easier. With that party build up there, patience, listening and teamwork you can best City pretty easily.

So things you need are

Time and Patience. Don't rush, don't join teams if you know you won't be able to stay long.

Listen to the person leading the party, don't try to do things on your own if you don't know what you're doing.

Don't rage quit if you die, dying happens here and it will happen often. Instead stick with the team because you're needed. Granted as it has been said, losing one monk, you can still make it. Because of the above two things.

With those things, the right team whether it be what I said above or whatever you guys make..and the right skills. You should be able to best this place.

Guild groups/alliance groups will be good here, PUGS are too because people have been passing with them. But PUGs don't always follow the above rules, then again Guild/alliance groups don't either sometimes.

Sli Ander · Dec 03, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Sounds like Candy Canes are going to be in high demand again this year.

I don't have NF, but from what I read here it sounds like nobody has gotten to the Elite mission yet, just through the elite areas? Maybe Razah will come in handy in the mission, or maybe the mission will have 12 man teams? Just some thoughts..

crazy diamond · Dec 03, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tickle

If all you really want is Razah then the easy solution is to get him through faction.

As long as you just want him for PvP.

raven214 · Dec 03, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Razah is not an special hero.
Is not worth 4 of those gems.

You can unlok it in PvP just by 6000 faction.

Acquistion of a ritualist hero shoud have been in Factions like the assain, another mesmer should have been in Prophecies, next chapter shoud have one of each of it sprofessions and Razah should have been really a Varaible Hero.

QFT!
/signed
/agreed! lol

Been trying to skim through this thread.. up to page 43 so far lol.

I have nothing against the difficulty level, it being an end-game challenge/elite area. But as for Razah, I seriously would like to know: what was ANet's thinking on this? Gaile, anyone??? You make a Factions hero only accessible after beating Nightfall and doing an insane (elite) Nightfall quest? That seriously makes no sense. It even says in the Nightfall book that Razah's profession is "variable". It didn't say "Ritualist" or "Unknown", and I was unaware that the two are apparently synonymous. I doubt ANet will change Razah to what he/she/it should've been (a variable hero) as they've gone ahead with this mistake, but hopefully they will at least make his aquisition easier. Please please think a little before you go adding random unrelating stuff in the wrong chapter ANet, please.

Dawnspire · Dec 03, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Has anyone even gotten Razah yet? How do you know he isnt variable profession in PvE? Or that there isnt a quest to enable the variable-ness?

Could be his default profession is rit, and you need to unlock the variable for pvp also..(this is probably not the case, but dont bury someone unless youre sure theyre dead)

If this happens to be the case I will love to see all the whiners bow down to Anet in droves.

crazy diamond · Dec 03, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Yes, people have gotten him. No, he is most certainly not viable profession.

raven214 · Dec 03, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnspire

Has anyone even gotten Razah yet? How do you know he isnt variable profession in PvE? Or that there isnt a quest to enable the variable-ness?

Could be his default profession is rit, and you need to unlock the variable for pvp also..(this is probably not the case, but dont bury someone unless youre sure theyre dead)

If this happens to be the case I will love to see all the whiners bow down to Anet in droves.

Hey, if that turns out to be the case I will gladly appologize for second-guessing ANet. But when you read Razah's description (from the PvP priest guy), it specifically says "He is a powerful ritualist."

I would still very much like to hear directly from ANet on this. Gaile?

Cherrie · Dec 03, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

However, I think in time you'll find gaining Razah to be easier.
Even if you can't complete the DoA quest, all you need is the four gemstones...if I'm not mistaken.

Actually, since I haven't heard about anyone unlocking Razah in PvE, we can't be sure about it - 4 gemstones make trhe npc let you through the door, what happens than - we don't know.
Actually, can someone who unlocked him in PvE share with us what happens after handling the 4 gems?

Kelson · Dec 03, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven214

I have nothing against the difficulty level, it being an end-game challenge/elite area. But as for Razah, I seriously would like to know: what was ANet's thinking on this? Gaile, anyone??? You make a Factions hero only accessible after beating Nightfall and doing an insane (elite) Nightfall quest? That seriously makes no sense. It even says in the Nightfall book that Razah's profession is "variable". It didn't say "Ritualist" or "Unknown", and I was unaware that the two are apparently synonymous. I doubt ANet will change Razah to what he/she/it should've been (a variable hero) as they've gone ahead with this mistake, but hopefully they will at least make his aquisition easier. Please please think a little before you go adding random unrelating stuff in the wrong chapter ANet, please.

I'm in total agreement here. Leave the difficulty level alone, it's nice to finally have a true challenge in PvE.
However, Razah should not be this difficult to get.
As the only possible ritualist hero it makes no sense. If he was truly variable, or was even a second option for one of the other professions, I'd be all for the difficulty in getting him, but this is simply, far, far too much trouble for this to be my only option for a ritualist hero, and for me to repeat over and over for each of my characters.
None of the other heroes were even remotely difficult to get, so why am I so restricted in getting my ritualist one?

Artkin · Dec 03, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

LOL...bet not one of you have gotten far and spent most of your life trying to beat the ELITE missions or waiting for some geek to tell you the build.

This is a game. definition of game...activity engaged in for diversion or amusement.

I bought this item as a game..not a way of life...therefore I should be able to play the entire game. I should not have to wait until someone tells me how to play the game.

Side note they introduced heroes as a main aspect of the game...me and 2 other friends go into the elite area with our heroes, the same heroes that finished the game with us...what happened demolished in seconds...again and again. So you create a game that revolves around PvE and the use of heroes, but then you say to be elite you have to play with 7 other players that spend all their time playing guild wars.

icedragon981 · Dec 03, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artkin

LOL...bet not one of you have gotten far and spent most of your life trying to beat the ELITE missions or waiting for some geek to tell you the build.

This is a game. definition of game...activity engaged in for diversion or amusement.

I bought this item as a game..not a way of life...therefore I should be able to play the entire game. I should not have to wait until someone tells me how to play the game.

Side note they introduced heroes as a main aspect of the game...me and 2 other friends go into the elite area with our heroes, the same heroes that finished the game with us...what happened demolished in seconds...again and again. So you create a game that revolves around PvE and the use of heroes, but then you say to be elite you have to play with 7 other players that spend all their time playing guild wars.

You say that since this is just a game you should be able to enjoy everything it has to offer, and since you are so fixated on the word "geek" let's take a look at "non-geeky" games. Let's look at basketball, it is just a game and, according to your logic, that means that you should be able to compete in this game easily without much time commitment, WRONG. Any game requires a time commitment and practice to be good at it. So go play whatever game you'd rather play or spend time with your favorite passtime because, obviously, high-end GW content isn't for you.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Dec 03, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedragon981

You say that since this is just a game you should be able to enjoy everything it has to offer, and since you are so fixated on the word "geek" let's take a look at "non-geeky" games. Let's look at basketball, it is just a game and, according to your logic, that means that you should be able to compete in this game easily without much time commitment, WRONG. Any game requires a time commitment and practice to be good at it. So go play whatever game you'd rather play or spend time with your favorite passtime because, obviously, high-end GW content isn't for you.

You can compete easilly without much time commitment. But competetive basketball is not aimed towards casual players, since it are PROFESSIONAL players who are competing in the high end competition...

therefore if I draw on the anology, you would say that high end gw content is only for the professional gamer and not for the casual gamer, meaning that with this contentupdate anet has entirely not catered towards its targetobjective namely the casual player...

So yes, he did have all the reason for complaining.

Malice Black · Dec 03, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

57 pages...none of which will solve anything.

Gaile is aware that most people think DoA is too hard. Gaile would have passed that along to Anet and any other interested parties.

57 pages of bickering back and forth solves nothing and wastes space.

Time to close.

Artkin · Dec 03, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

LOL again....hmmm basketball, ok I can go out and play a game and win or lose have fun. Guild Wars...hmmm...warrior...7 million XP...all elite skills (291)...mapping 100% all continents...3500+ chests opened....protector titles in all 3 chapters...hmm lots else...just can't think of them at the moment.

I HAD FUN GETTING THESE TITLES ETC!!!!

DoA is not fun and has no aspects of fun!!!

I can go into FoW..UW..Sorrow's...the Deep with PUGs and have a good time.

DoA requires a group of 8 with specific builds to spend countless hours trying to accomplish. So say I find a group that is good...and we play for an hour or two and do well...then 1 perosn has to leave cause they have work and then the next and the next. Then maybe days later we are all on again for the same 1/2 period of time....but these missions require hours of play time. Hell even ANET starts to warn you after being logged on for an hour!!!

Why do they warn you to take a break after an hour when the mission takes longer? Hmmmm...maybe poor planning and catering to a select audience.

Like I said...more and more will get tired of it and find a new game that is enjoyable as Guild Wars used to be.

icedragon981 · Dec 03, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

You can compete easilly without much time commitment. But competetive basketball is not aimed towards casual players, since it are PROFESSIONAL players who are competing in the high end competition...

therefore if I draw on the anology, you would say that high end gw content is only for the professional gamer and not for the casual gamer, meaning that with this contentupdate anet has entirely not catered towards its targetobjective namely the casual player...

So yes, he did have all the reason for complaining.

It is true that you can compete in Guild Wars easily without much time commitment but only against certain areas/people, just like how the casual basketball player can compete with other casual players but is in a totally different league as proffessionals.
Also, yes, Guild Wars' target market is the casual gamers but do you expect them to treat the casual gamers to the exact same content as the "elite" players? That's catering completely to the casual gamer because there is absolutely nothing to seperate the casual from the elite, which no game does.

Any physical sport/game: casual vs. proffessional
WoW: Non Raiders vs. Raiders
GW: Casual vs. the end-game-content-playing "elite"

All of these latter require time, patience and effort. There is a LOT of content in Guild Wars for the casual players but the elite players have to have something to seperate them from the casual, that being the Domain/Gate of Anguish.

Edit: In reply to the post above me, posted while I was typing this...

If you don't consider this area fun, why bother with it? I am constantly bombarded with people telling me to play WoW instead of GW but I feel that WoW if much more of a forced grind to even be remotely competetive while in GW, you can just start playing, go to RA and be competetive if you feel that that is fun. Noone if forcing you to play in the the elite areas that you don't feel are fun so why do you wish to insult those who find these areas interesting, challenging, and fun to them?

explodemyheart · Dec 03, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Artkin, you were basing your entire argument on the fact that a casual player should be able to do everything they want when they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artkin

LOL again....hmmm basketball, ok I can go out and play a game and win or lose have fun. Guild Wars...hmmm...warrior...7 million XP...all elite skills (291)...mapping 100% all continents...3500+ chests opened....protector titles in all 3 chapters...hmm lots else...just can't think of them at the moment.

I'd hardly call this a casual player. Being as I'd say you're not, I don't see why it's that big of a deal to find an organized group with a specific build and roll with that.

The Deep, Urgoz, and Sorrow's Furnace had gimmick builds for time saving and efficiency. That's exactly what people are doing for DoA now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artkin

I HAD FUN GETTING THESE TITLES ETC!!!!

DoA is not fun and has no aspects of fun!!!

I can go into FoW..UW..Sorrow's...the Deep with PUGs and have a good time.

Then go do those, and stop complaining about how hard DoA is. If it's hard and not fun, don't do it! Not everybody can be pleased with everything. I don't enjoy RA or TA or Deep or Urgoz, so instead of complaining about it I just don't play it. I choose to do the other things that I do enjoy doing.

So you paid for a product. Can you honestly expect a company to produce a product that pleases each and every single person that ever plays it on every single aspect of the game? You can't. An expectation like that is not reasonable because it's just not possible.

-.- · Dec 03, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

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Zinger314 · Dec 03, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

Gaile is aware that most people think DoA is too hard. Gaile would have passed that along to Anet and any other interested parties.

Gaile also passed on that many people hated Touch Rangers. But look at it now...

Artkin · Dec 03, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

WRONG!!!

I could spend every waking moment learning to play basketball, football or any other sport and never become a professional. For one I'm too old and do not have the size or talent levels.

But, I could spend every waking moment and maybe become what ANET calls an elite player I guess. Just try over and over again or wait until sombody tells me how to do it.

So let's see...I quit my job and play GWs so I can become "elite", wow...how then do I pay for my internet service? I would guess that more than 99% of players are in the same situation as I. So we are all non-elite and ANET caters towards the 1% or less, the professional gamers. What kind of future is that? It's not like the rest of us are going to sit and watch them play as we do football or any other professional sport.